Interview with Mark Ohlmann of Food Safety Innovation

In this episode of Clean Processes with Jerry, Jerry introduces his special guest, Mark Ohlman. Jerry and Mark discuss their online interactions and the value of learning from differing perspectives. 

A food safety expert with extensive experience is valuable in the food service industry. They possess a deep understanding of the various aspects of food safety, including regulations, best practices, and problem-solving techniques. This expertise is gained through years of hands-on experience in different roles within the industry.

One such expert is Mark Ohlman, the founder of Food Safety Innovation. With over 40 years of experience in food service, Mark has worked in various positions, ranging from bussing tables and washing dishes to being a health inspector and director of food safety for companies. His diverse background has given him a comprehensive understanding of the industry and its challenges.

Mark's passion for food safety is evident in his dedication to helping others. He believes in connecting with people and using empathy to solve problems. Having been in the shoes of different roles within the food service industry, Mark understands the challenges and frustrations that professionals face. By approaching problem-solving with empathy, he can offer practical solutions that save time and make processes more efficient.

Mark's experience as a total quality manager for Darden, a renowned food service company, further highlights his expertise. In this role, he oversaw food safety and quality for multiple states and brands. Any issues related to food safety, such as pest control, health department compliance, and foodborne illnesses, fell under his purview. This experience allowed him to develop a deep understanding of the complexities involved in maintaining food safety standards across a large organization.

Mark's knowledge and expertise make him a valuable resource for businesses in the food service industry. His company, Food Safety Innovation, leverages his lifetime of experience to provide guidance and solutions to food service professionals. By understanding each business's unique challenges, Mark can tailor his advice and recommendations to ensure compliance with regulations and best practices.

In conclusion, a food safety expert with extensive experience, such as Mark, brings knowledge and problem-solving skills to the table. Their understanding of regulations, best practices, and industry challenges allows them to provide valuable guidance and support to businesses in the food service industry. With their expertise, companies can ensure their products' safety and quality while improving efficiency and compliance.

Different Sites Below
https://direct.me/jerrybauer

Jerry Bauer
Hospitality Cleaning 101
Jerry@hospitalitycleaning101.com

Transcript

Jerry
Hi, welcome to Clean Processes with Jerry. This podcast that I've designed is dedicated to building an online community of like-minded individuals and businesses in the chemical and cleaning industry. We're gonna share ideas, tips, solutions, and stories to solve problems and to also expand our markets. When we introduce a special guest, it just might be you. I personally work for Chem Station of Boston, where I am based in New England. I also run a blog, Hospitality Cleaning 101. If you ever have questions, feel free to reach out and I will answer on a future podcast if you like. At the end of the show, I will include my contact information as well as my guests. Hey, everybody. Today we have Mark Ohlmann. Am I pronouncing your last name correctly? Perfect. Mark, thanks for joining me here today. We've talked for a couple minutes before. I reached out to you a couple weeks ago through LinkedIn. I had made a couple comments, you'd made a couple replies. I love the replies and it wasn't that you agreed with me because I really like people who disagree with me more than anything else. Just like posting, just like blog posts, just like anything, the more information you can take within yourself, the more you learn. Both of us are still learning each and every day. You and I have a lot of similarities, but I'm going to quit talking and I'm going to leave it up to you. Mark, why don't you go ahead and tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got here?

 Mark
Well, I appreciate the banter online. And, you know, one thing I've tried to do, the older I get, is to answer someone's question succinctly first and then tell your story. I come from a family of storytellers, which can be a good and a bad thing, because if someone, you know, a lot of times people ask for information now, I'll say, do you want the short version? You want the long version? Right. But I found people won't always say that. So you say, answer their question and then offer the, the elaborative information. So, I know I gave you probably more information than you asked for, but I love that. I enjoy the conversation and people who want to have that, but sometimes schedules being what they are, not everyone wants that. They just want, what is it? What's the answer? Let's move on. So yeah, so thank you. So you asked me just about who I am and my background. Right. So again, I appreciate it. I'm currently, I'm the founder of a company called Food Safety Innovation. I know S, so I'll give the shameless plug. It's, it's foodsafetyinnovation.com. Right. If you put an S on there, that's someone else. That's not me. So make sure that you get it right. And basically what I've done is I've leveraged a lifetime of food service experience. I started when I was 13, bussing tables, washing dishes at an uncle's truck stop. And even though I've been to college and I've had a couple of degrees, I've always come back to food service at some point in some form or another. And over the years, I'm now over 50. We'll just keep it right there. I have a little over 40 years experience in food service, and that could be everything from working in a restaurant to being the health inspector to working for purchasing for a food service company, working for corporate communications for a beverage company, Being a third party auditor being the regulator being the director of food safety for companies and my passion a lot of people say they're passionate about food safety i am. But what i really enjoy is connecting with people and when you've worked a variety of positions i find no greater joy than to help someone problem solve through empathy and i don't mean sympathy i really mean empathy because i've been in that position i've been the code prep cook i've been the bartender i've been the dishwasher And if you can show someone that you sincerely want to save them time, and you want to make it more simple, then you can really get their buy-in. So with that in mind, I was downsized during COVID out of Darden. I was a total quality manager for almost a decade. I, along with most of my colleagues, and Darden's a fine company. I just, you know, I think they were the first big company food service.

 Jerry
Now, just when you work for them, how many restaurants were you in charge of the monitor?

 Mark
We were, we were considered corporate, but we were field-based. So even though Darden's in Orlando, I'm in Louisville, Kentucky, and I supported at one point four states, but at the very end, it was three states and the District of Columbia. all brands. So I had all eight brands of Darden under my wheelhouse. Anything that was a chronic pest control issue, a health department issue, a foodborne illness issue, anything that really impacted the guests from a food safety or quality perspective would funnel through the wheelhouse of a total quality manager. And I was one at that time of 12 positions that Darden had. So you got to meet a lot of people, you still stayed close to the restaurants, And I don't know if it's a Darden phrase or not, but someone a long time ago said, the farther away you get from the restaurant, the farther away you are from the truth. Right. And anyone who's been around restaurants, I know you have. I know I have. A lot of your listeners have. It's not an easy gig. It's not. It's not. Not everyone's built for it. And if you're not passionate about it, if you don't believe in the service of others, And you could mean that religiously in your life, morally, however you want to do it. But in food service, if you're not willing to serve others, you're not cut out for that industry.

 Jerry
So go ahead. No, it's an excellent answer. And the reason is it's so similar and going parallel exactly to my life and actually why I'm doing a podcast today. It's to continue the communications. I started out as a dishwasher at age 15. I have a, I know that you've seen different things that I do online. 10 years ago I started a site, I don't know if you've been to it yet, Hospitality Cleaning 101. It goes right along that same thing, where I'm just trying to bring people together, educate, people come back to me and ask for advice. I enjoy giving it, giving my opinion. Sometimes they agree, sometimes they don't, and that's fine. Since starting this podcast, Well, let's put it this way. I'll back up a second. Before starting this podcast, I thought I was, in many regards, the smartest person in the room. Even though I kept that arrogance to myself, sometimes I thought that because I'd been doing it for 40 years. Well, now I realize I'm talking to other people, other people in fringe areas, outside the area, and I find how much more I still need to learn, but I'm enjoying every minute of it. I never had the arrogance on the top of my shoulder where I was arrogant to anybody. I thought, oh, I know that. I can do that. Wow, there's a lot to all these industries that we don't know. So I appreciate what you've been able to do. Now, for a short period of time, and I just glanced at, you work for Ecolab, but I'm not sure what that title was that you, what did you do for Ecolab? Because I had worked for Ecolab as well.

 Mark
Right. Well, so I was with Darden for almost a decade. And during COVID, I was downsized. Right. Then, you know, a lot of job searching and a lot of success. I'm developing food safety innovation on the side start takes a long time to get going so i need to pay the bills so it's an opportunity just to be a field. Build service specialist is what they call it or field specialist. And basically, you're just a generic third-party auditor Eco Lab Ecosure has a slate of food service clients that might be fast food coffee houses full service restaurants and they. pay a company to come in and for usually a customized audit to execute that audit and give them feedback, which I've done a variety of third-party auditing in my background. I mean, Steratech, Eco, Everclean, when they were a thing, ASI, which is more on a supplier side. So I've done a lot of third-party auditing, but it was, it was a good, it was a good feel. And then got to a point basically where it's like, you know, I know I can do more than this. And you've seen my resume. I've got to a point to where I'm comfortable with food safety innovation. I want to go ahead and just do that full time. And you talked about learning things. Yeah. Being able to empathize with people, but doing it humbly. I have something that I call the three P's and I know that's kind of a common thing to say online. It seems like three P's stand for different things, but mine are polite, professional and proactive. And when I talk to food service, or I'm consulting with someone, or when I was doing an audit, or I'm trying to sell a utensil wing and utensil ramp of food safety innovation, you know, check your ego. It's not about you, right? You're there to give them service. And I enjoy doing that and hearing their stories and their struggles. But I am the first person to say, if I don't know, you know what? And I don't claim to know everything, but I usually know where to look.

Jerry
Right. So how do you find your clients today? Do you do it through LinkedIn outreach or is it because possibly you have a book of contacts you already have, but tell me how you find business today.

 Mark
Well, I have the website that I gave the shameless plug for again, www.foodsafetyinnovation.com. And so the website's been out there for over a year. And more recently, what I did is I attended my first seminar as an exhibitor. And that was at the FDA Southeast Region Food Safety Seminar in North Carolina, Asheville. And that was great to reconnect with former colleagues and friends. You know, and it's Jerry, it's one thing, you know, I've been doing this for food safety innovation. It's been over a year. It's one thing to have your friends and family go, you know, that's really interesting. I'm really impressed with this idea. That's all well and good. But, you know, your mom is always going to think that you've got the best ideas and sliced bread. It's another thing to go and exhibit and put yourself out there and demonstrate your products and have colleagues that are in the field, food service regulatory, look at it and go, man, that's a great idea. i'm gonna share this with people let me take some information so that and i've signed up for another seminar in february in illinois i'm also going to promote it in that way as well and then otherwise it's it's putting on the logo where that you see right here it's going around to restaurants and it's introducing myself maybe they previously knew me because i work for darden maybe because i work for eco sure It just depends. So I'm promoting it with the mom and pops and the individual restaurants as well. And then honestly, through LinkedIn, it's been a valuable asset to try to get in and say, how do I become an approved smallware supplier for X company? And that's more challenging. I finally talked to a manager of smallwares for a company, and that call was five months. It took me five months to get the call.

 Jerry
How many items i mean i've been to your website i've been to it a couple times class how many items are you selling on the website currently just two but i have a few others in development well i was gonna you knew my next question i watched a couple of your podcast

 Mark
But the ones that are for sale are the ones that have been tested in restaurants, given feedback to, I've changed a couple of things and they're good to go. They're the ones that I exhibit when I go to conferences and seminars. And then another thing, and I planned to have the video released before this podcast, but I don't. One thing, if you read my LinkedIn, I talk about with food safety innovation is food safety doesn't have to be complicated or expensive. And in one of the one of the things that I recently had a director of food safety contact me about for a large 700 unit company. He said, you know, we've got an issue with our sanitizer buckets. You know, we have a way that we hold them, but it's expensive. Do you have another idea? And I have an idea. And I shared it with him. And he didn't think it was robust enough for their purposes. But it's just a mindset. And what I proposed wasn't something that I can sell. It was Utilizing something that's off the shelf at Lowe's and Home Depot that literally cost less than $2. Right. Sanitizer buckets, those holders, anywhere from $15 to $45 a piece. And while I am selling something that's $50 a piece, my item saves you time and money. Where a sanitizer bucket hanger just costs, right?

 Jerry
That makes sense. Yeah, most of it. Now, you had mentioned the beginning. How long were these ideas or this? When did you start the first prototype? I guess I should ask. How did you come up with this idea?

 Mark
After after I was laid off. you know, doing a lot of soul searching. This is something that I'd seen that was actually, there's a need out there for it. And, you know, again, Darden's a great company, but Darden is very specific. It doesn't matter what brand you go into, they have the same struggle as any food service company out there. Just insert a name. If you have someone that handles raw proteins, that could be chicken, seafood, beef, pork, it doesn't matter. A lot of positions in those kitchens in the back of the house, BOH, they have raw and ready to eat tasks. And since I was a regulator over 20 years ago, that's when you can no longer touch food with your bare hands. The default utensil for food service became a disposable glove. I should have had one that I could put on. And disposable gloves are easy, but they're expensive. And if you use a disposable glove as your default utensil, then there's a hand washing burden that goes along with it. If you've touched a raw protein and then you've got to turn around and plate something or get an appetizer out of the fryer, you have to not only change your gloves, but you've got to wash your hands. I'm a realist. What was true 20 some odd years ago is true today. Nobody washes their hands when they're supposed to. Most definitely. In fact, when I was exhibiting in Asheville, and there were a lot of regulatory people, I would show them this changing the gloves. And I said, what do you need to do now? And they'd say, you got to wash your hands. And I would say, OK, let's stop for a second. Do you score that every time you should? And you had regulators that went, not as much as I should. And I said, you know, someone who comes from operations and food service, if you want to make a change, then do document it. Because most companies want to do the right thing. But if you don't document it, it doesn't have visibility, they're not going to. So during COVID, after I was laid off, I started toying around with this on a piece of paper. And I don't know if it's divine intervention or not, but I'm not kidding. I had a dream. And I got up in the middle of the night and I was like, a utensil. They're in the coolers, in a reach-in cooler. It could just hang from the bottom of the shelf. And it needs to look like a W. And that started and I wrote something down and just jotted out. I actually have a book here of ideas that I wrote it down in and it just started from there. So just really small prototyping with a cardboard piece and then go to Lowe's and get a piece of sheet metal. And I never used a metal break before. I didn't know about manufacturing sheet metal, but I have a cousin. They own a roofing company. So I went there and said, hey, I'm out of my I'm out of my expertise here. This is what I want to make. What do I need? And he said, you need a metal break. And so we worked in his shop for about 45 minutes and made the first prototype, which I'm sorry, I should have it with me. It's a very, it's just a galvanized metal, really thin device. And from there, I just kept changing it. And I took magic permanent markers and wrote on each device. The changes what the issue was, I have a catalog of all of those things here until I got to the point where I could go to a couple of restaurants by my house that I frequent often. So they know me and said, you know, this is what I've done. You guys know my background. Would you be willing to test these for me? And they said, sure. And the first place I went to, Jerry, it's, I'll give him the plug, it's Gander, an American Bistro, it's in Louisville, Kentucky, they have really good food. The chef's no longer there, but I told him, I said, how do you guys, you have a lot of raw proteins, I said, how do you guys handle them? And he said, disposable gloves. And I said, what do your glove costs? And he goes, he said, hundreds of dollars a week. And I said, well, I have something that will help you manage that. So I went back in the kitchen and we watched them handle pork chops and chicken and beef. And every time they're doing it, they're the person at the grill is taking off gloves and putting them another pair. I'm there to help. I'm not reporting him to anybody. Right. They just there's it's impractical to wash your hands. And that's something I want to say here really quick. When people in food service tell a health inspector, I don't have time to wash my hands. They're not being disrespectful, they're being truthful. So I put the blame for that back on their brand and their food service company, which has developed a system that doesn't set that position up for success. So if you're going to work at a position where you're handling raw proteins and baked potatoes and plates and rolls and other ready-to-eat items, if your default utensil is going to be disposable gloves, then you need to do something more creative with the raw proteins. So my devices, if you go to the website, you've probably seen the pictures, they literally give a home to those in-use utensils. It can be primarily tongs, but there's other utensils, spoodles, scoops, ladles, everything. between use, so you don't contaminate the handle. So if I wash my hands, does that make sense?

 Jerry
Yes.

 Mark
If I wash my hands, then I put on disposable gloves, I'm ready to go. I've got plates. I'm getting a ramekin of dressing. I got the beef au jus here. I'm getting the baked potato. Oh, look at the board. We got three chicken. Okay. If I turn around and take those disposable gloves and open that drawer and get that chicken out with my gloved hands, I've now cross-contaminated. I got to take them off, which Almost every place does, thankfully. Right. But they don't go wash their hands because guess what? Now there's another order that's coming up. I got to go back over here. So my device is basically hold those tongs in a designated container like the ramp you saw or the wing in a reach-in cooler. And I done again, the plate, the baker, the au jus, whatever it is, I turn around, I open up that reach-in cooler or I'll slide open that refrigerated drawer. Those tongs are stored so the handle is not in the raw product. I take the utensil out of that holder. I get the raw protein. I put the utensil back in that holder. I haven't contaminated my gloves. I can turn right back around and keep working with Ready, Deep Foods. Because I didn't cross-contaminate. I've used two different utensils.

 Jerry
Does that make sense? It does. But I have a question. And frequently I ask questions. I know the answers. But I don't know the answer to this. I'm going back many years ago when I was a line cook, working on a line. You know, at that time, because of my age. We use one set of tongs. That probably was used throughout everything for all day, uses for everything. Now we really stayed away from the raw, but I did use the same set of tongs for, let's say it's over a grill, for the chicken and the beef. How about today? If it's over the fire, over the grill, are they supposed to use two sets of tongs for that? Or should or can they get by with one for just turning the food? I don't know the answer.

 Mark
No, no. And that's a great question. I just saw this not too long ago at a place that I'm helping out. So they use a pair of tongs. I don't know how you got it out. But if they've got that pair of tongs there, sometimes they use disposable gloves. Sometimes they use those tongs to get that food out. And they're storing the tong on the fire in between. Right. After you take it out, you've recontaminated that tong. The scientific answer is, unless you have a challenge study that shows that that tongue has been exposed to that fire for a long enough period of time to destroy that pathogen, if you take that same pair of tongs and then turn the chicken, turn the steak, you got to think of a tongue that's got two sides to it. Most definitely. The cook side is the bottom, and your tongue, which is on the grill, is on the bottom. But if you use that tongue for raw proteins, you've just recontaminated the top of that. with what you were holding with the rod. Does that make sense?

 Jerry
Most definitely. Well, I see that at local barbecues or at relatives' houses now, before it was one set of tongs that did it, where now people at least have, and you know, plus, you know, years ago, they got smart. They at least came out with color coordinated or you know, they put colors on his tongue, which does help because, you know, a person like myself, he'd be using red for me one day, then he'd be using green or something, you know, at least it goes hand in hand. I was, I was trainable, you know.

 Mark
That's the key right there. You have to be open to learning. So I don't know if this will blow your mind or not, but it did at this. This is a small restaurant here in Louisville. And again, not Gander. Gander's great. And the solution I made to them is, I said, if you're going to use the tongs to put the raw protein up there, he said, yeah. I said, that's fine. And I said, but to turn them. And I said, where's your spatula? And I said, because the spatula only touches the bottom and it turns them. So we did it with just the spatula. And the spatula can stay on the fire if you want it to, or at room temperature. You just have to clean it every four hours.

 Jerry
It's only touching the bottom, not the bottom end of the top.

 Mark
And we did that with them and he goes, oh my gosh, we've been doing this wrong forever. And he goes, we're cross-contaminating with the tongs. And I said, if you put that raw chicken or that new steak up there and use that same pair of red tongs for the steak, yellow for the chicken, to then get that cooked chicken off and plate it, you just contaminated my food. If you use the spatula, the spatula touches the underside Use it for pork. Use it for chicken. Use it for steak. You might not want to use it for seafood because of allergen concerns. But the point is you didn't cross contaminate it. So now you've got those disposable gloves just for the ready to eat. You've got the tongs just for the raws to put them on there. and the tongs are stored so they're not in the product, they're not contaminating your gloves, and now you got the spatula to turn it and to plate it. Right. You have just, now you don't have to change your gloves every order that comes through, you're controlling costs. What I say on the website is, is saving money, simplifying operations, and promoting a food safety culture. And if you can show a restaurant how they can save money by cutting down disposable gloves, and you're saving them time as well because you're not washing their hands, every 10 seconds. So you're really also saving disposable towels and water and soap.

 Jerry
Most definitely.

Mark
But most importantly, you're saving them time from their perspective.

 Jerry
Right.

 Mark
Time and money. And then you're also promoting positive food safety habits, but you've done it in a way that's seamless. Now, we just described something and hopefully people that are listening if they worked in services make sense to them at the seminar had a whole little grill set up and everything. So you could see it. It had fake food and everything. Jerry, you'd love it. Rubber chicken and all of this stuff. But if you say, well, what's your device? So what? I've got tongs. I can store them somewhere. But people store tongs everywhere. You've been in kitchens. They'll be hanging from a rail. They'll be on a Lowboy cooler. They might be on a shelf. They might be in a dirty, sandy bucket. They might be hanging from an apron. So again, the purpose of my containers is you have a home. And ideally, these go in the ramp in a refrigerated drawer with the other raw proteins and the wing hangs from the underside of a reach and cooler shelf. So they're not cross-contaminated. They're designated. So you use it, you put it back, and then you keep moving. And again, once you have a restaurant that sees how to do this, we've literally done it with the gloves. And so just do it like you usually do it. And they're using the gloves, changing them, not washing their hands. Again, I'm not the health department. It's wrong, but I'm not going to say anything at the moment. And then I say, now do it how you're supposed to by washing your hands. And they're like, I don't have time. You're right. You don't. So then we bring in my devices and show them how to do it. And at Gander, the very first time they did it, I had the grill, the grill cook, his name was T. He looked at his chef and he goes, chef, he goes, I need this. I need to have this. He goes, and I said, how many, I said, T, how many times a day do you probably change your gloves? And he said, on a busy day, I probably do it 100 times. Wow. So that's 100 pairs of gloves. That's 200 gloves. That's two boxes of gloves.

 Jerry
I'm going to wrap this up. But before I do, please tell people how people can get a hold of you. And go ahead and tell us about the website again and your email address and whatever you want.

 Mark
You can reach me at www.foodsafetyinnovation.com. I also have, there's the complete contact information there. You can get contact with me through LinkedIn. My business cell phone number is 502-308-9386. That's on the website and on LinkedIn. And then we were talking about just being honest and having conversations with people. You can also find me on Instagram. It's a little bit different. It's called Food Safety Pragmatist. And you can find me there. And I have over the course of my lifetime, I have probably thousands of photographs that I will take. And as you and I have done recently, when we've been out, we'll see something that's amiss from a food safety standpoint. And it's the point of food safety pragmatist kind of dovetails in with food safety innovation, which food safety innovation is about having an honest conversation. Do you set up a system that you're trying to control cross-contamination? Yes, but is it practical? So let's have that honest conversation. And on food safety pragmatists, I don't hold back. I name names, I call things out as they are because, and this, I don't mean to go too far off the reservation here. If you look at CDC risk factors and causes of fubaronis, the progress on preventing fubaronis has plateaued. For healthy people at 2000, then 2020, And i passionately feel that the reason why it's flatlined is one regulators are as nosy as they need to be and let's face it if you see someone. Cross contaminate or not wash their hands that has some conflict to it if you have to call him out. But again, polite, professional, proactive, that'll help you as a regulator. But the industry just has not innovated. They haven't evolved beyond disposable gloves or, as you talked about, a pair of tongs just sitting on the grill. We use it for everything. Right. So that's really the genesis of food safety innovation, which is helping you innovate and working smarter, keeping your guests protected and making it easier for your staff so you don't have that hand washing fatigue back at your house. And it's the analogy that I use is, and I won't use the Titanic, that's a bad reference point. If food service were a large cruise ship, I feel like I'm the small rudder on the back that's trying to steer the industry to rethink food handling. Because if you just add this device in conjunction with the gloves that you're already using, you're going to use less of them, and the tongs or the other utensils, It saves you money. They're going to pay for itself. Within days. Within days. Not an exaggeration. Within just a few days. And gloves are always going to be needed. But don't purposely contaminate them. I mean, it's wasteful. There's supply chain issues. They're expensive. And it really helps your back of house people. Because again, those guys and gals that work in those positions, it's not easy. And anything you can do to help simplify their life is a win for the guest.

 Jerry
Well, Mark, I appreciate it. Please, when you come out with your next items, let's do this again. I've actually have your cell number now in my context. Don't be surprised from a phone call from me soon. I love talking to you, man. So good luck to you. I appreciate you joining us here today.

Mark
Jerry, thank you for the generous time and the opportunity to promote my business.

Jerry
No problem. Have a great day. Thank you. Bye now.

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